“I’M not comfortable ” part SEVEN

Posted on December 20, 2014 by Pharmaciststeve

Filed under: General Problems

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18 Responses

  1. industry, on December 26, 2014 at 2:26 pm said:

    My story is like the above comments seem to point out. I was a very high earning HVAC technician licensed in Florida several years ago. After I received a C3 lateral fracture in a severe motor vehicle accident I struggled through therapy 3 times every week for just over a year. Then my auto insurance carrier sent me to a maximum medical improvement examine with a neurosurgeon who declared me with a partial permanent disability and suggested I apply for SSDI and begin a pain management program. I did begin with a Pain Management doctor who gave me rounds of both facet blocks and trigger point injections with pain medicine. After looking at my MRI’s my pain management doctor declined from advising me to seek out surgery as an option stating that I would not be able to continue HVAC work after the extensive surgery was completed. Since, I could not provide for my family without working, I agreed with my PM. I continued to work with extreme difficulty and pain for many years under his treatment. Then my PM went blind from failed eye surgery and retired. I was referred to other PM doctors and finally found one that agreed with my treatment plan and I started seeing a new PM in 1999. All this time I was paying cash for my PM visits, treatments, and prescriptions which was costing me about half of my net income or around $30,000/yr. When it began to be difficult to fill my prescriptions because I was paying cash I started thinking about SSDI strongly. I was able to survive financially because I was earning a good living even after paying for my treatment. However, now I was having problems getting my medication and I could not work without them. So I finally decided to apply for SSDI in 2003. I was denied at first, but won on appeal and began on SSDI in 2006. I was forced to stop working under the terms of SSDI and my family income was below poverty level so I received food stamps and other help. At least I could get my prescriptions filled because I no longer paid cash. The only reason I quit working and went on SSDI was because I could not get my prescriptions filled for cash. I would have struggled through the pain with the medications if I could have gotten my meds. My pain now is so bad that I can not work and I am stuck for the rest of my life on disability. If I was sure I would be able to get my medications I would be able to take another type of employment and try to work again, but if I lose my disability I lose my ability to get the medications that would allow me to work at all. I wonder how many people out there are in my position where it would be possible for them to find work, without labor, if they could keep getting their pain medications? In summary, I can not work without my medications and I can not get my medications without insurance and starting over at entry level employment would mean low income and poor insurance. In other words I have no choice, but to remain on SSDI for the low cost Medicare, even though I could change career and hold a job without any labor if I could be assured low cost insurance and the availability of my pain medications. This is terrible for our once great country for tax money to be spent supporting disabled persons because the only way they can work is with pain medications which now are being denied anyway.

    Reply
  2. boilerrph87, on December 22, 2014 at 6:44 pm said:

    Lauren…Since these patients were on opiates…the govt will justify it by declaring the patients deaths as ‘accidental overdose” and chalk it up to prescription drug abuse, no mention that the patient was a legitimate diagnosed chronic pain patient and was denied medictaion due to some opioidphobic AG or corporate pharmacy and regardless that the toxicology tests will probably show they did not die from a opioid overdose but by some other means…maybe taking their meds with a good dose of alcohol or some other method or going into a severe physical withdrawal that wasnt treated in a timely manner.

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  3. Lauren, on December 22, 2014 at 12:00 pm said:

    I truly feel sorry for everyone involved in this scenario, including the pharmacist. The DEA, on the other hand, infuriates me. I’m irate that it’s an issue in the first place. Criminals need to be protected from themselves, so this woman in constant misery who wants to work needs to be denied her right to function and have a livable quality of life? How does that makes sense to anyone in the first place let alone how does an entire government become so convinced of it they they constantly fight and spend resources that are mostly having the impact of ruining and often ending hundreds of thousands (if not more) of lives.

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  4. boilerrph87, on December 21, 2014 at 2:12 am said:

    So when the Muncie IN doctor here was under investigation, the DEA pulled his CSR and the Medical board suspended his license when they raided his clinics or immediately after…when I worked retail and docs were ‘caught by the DEA” there was no meeting with everyone beforehand about any investigation or under the table deals etc..its just one day…BOOM.We either got an email from the state board about an emergency suspension or saw it in the newspaper about the raid and emergency suspension..so how is it this pharmacist made it sound like there was this big pow wow with local pharmacists, the doc and the DEA to draw up a ‘verbal’ deal on the docs prescribing habits???? and all the while it was publically known he was under investigation “because it was in the local papers’??? so the Medical board hadnt suspended him and the DEA hadnt cancelled his CSR??

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    • painkills2, on December 21, 2014 at 2:43 pm said:

      I’ve heard of pain patients showing up for their monthly doctor appointment only to find the DEA raiding the place and confiscating their medical records. But I don’t know how the DEA works, so thanks for that info. Now that you’ve brought this up, you’re right, what the pharmacist said doesn’t make sense.

      Reply
  5. Mark Ibsen MD, on December 21, 2014 at 1:42 am said:

    This patient saw 7 previous doctors.
    The pharmacist implies that he wants the patient to see another doctor, that this doctor does not have the specialty chops to treat a patient on 7.5 hydrocodone?

    It’s NOT neurosurgery!

    Reply
  6. Donna, on December 20, 2014 at 6:54 pm said:

    Some patients actually live in rural areas where there just isn’t a pain specialist within a hundred miles. I know because I own a home on a mountain where there is such a place as this. It’s so damn rural most people have no idea that the town even exists. I have went to the Urgent care in that town for many monthly refills such BP meds, Xanax refills and yes some pain med refills too. Didn’t anyone hear that this lady has been 7 doctors and none of them will help her pain? That she is a working citizen who is trying to keep her employment? Would it better for her to go on SSDI, get extremely less income and start using money from tax payers instead, even if she can still work as long as her pain controlled? From hearing this number 7.5 mgs to 5 sounds to me that this only vicoden were talking about here. Come on… Vicoden… is the lowest dose besides codeine that is even prescribed as a controlled med. This is just bullshit for the pharmacist or the DEA to take it out on her or even some patients are doing business in the parking lot. Why isn’t it that the pharmacist would just tell that doctor and DEA who is dealing the drugs in the parking lot and bust them for abusing.. after all they just filled those scripts right? and not take it out on innocent people. Problem solved. That doctor most likely has no idea which patients are doing this, so why punish him?

    Pain patients are suffering people! Beyond belief! Killing themselves because of pain? Is this not America anymore? No compassion for pain disease states anymore? How cruel this all is.. That pharmacist is playing doctor by telling her what to take for her pain, when she most likely already tried that dose, or maybe has tolerance to it. That is normal in case anyone forgot.. He doesn’t care what med or what dose is appropriate for this lady. Nor does he even care.

    As for the comment on video taping these refusals? At this point, who gives a shit about that. After all the pharmacy is taping everyone of us at every move we make. So hell.. I would be taping these refusals myself if I needed to.
    Congress needs to see what’s happening here. Somebody in charge of the total medical care system needs to see what’s happening in the USA and they need to open their freakin’ eyes and see the injustices that’s happening to these pain patients every single day!!
    When is enough suicides going to be enough? When is it too many on SSDI when they would be able to work but can’t because of crap like this? Our national debt is out of control but hey.. that’s ok.. Let’s just get more people on SS, the sooner the better. Does this make sense? Families will suffer too and kids will go hungry when parents can’t work..
    Sorry.. I think all this bullshit. It needs to stop and has gone so far overboard harming innocent patients, witch hunting the caring doctors and taking them out of work, this is a SICK joke!

    Police state? Absolutely. I suppose that those who agree with all these denials of pain medicines really think they helping people don’t they? NO their not!
    Any doctor should be allowed to prescribe combo opiates, meaning those with Tylenol in them. Those meds are not as harmful and for rural residents, that have no pain doctor specialists. In many cases these farmers.. Those who get food to your tables! They should be allowed to Rx these kinds of meds.. American RIGHTS and our Choices are disappearing. Some day.. all those agreeing with this and who are allowing this? Should be strickened with severe pain!! Maybe only then they will get it! Pain doctors don’t have time to see vicoden, loratab, or Norco patients every month.. This is just so far past stupid!! frankly.. this pisses me OFF!

    Reply
    • painkills2, on December 20, 2014 at 10:13 pm said:

      “Some patients actually live in rural areas where there just isn’t a pain specialist within a hundred miles.”

      The telemedicine program in New Mexico is supposed to be working fairly well, but there is little news directly from patients. But you won’t be surprised that other states are creating barriers for doctors to prescribe through telemedicine — but only for certain medications.

      And I’m only worried about the patient’s liability in regards to the recording. But since pharmacists are already recorded by their employers every day, I can’t see that it would make a difference… still, always better to be safe than sorry.

      I’m pissed off too, but getting angry just makes my head pound harder…

      Reply
  7. RalPh, on December 20, 2014 at 3:55 am said:

    I looked at the video again, found out exactly where the doctor mentioned here works. He works for an urgent care, as the header on the Rx says. Urgent is defined as needing immediate attention or action. Is a doctor prescribing within his normal scope of practice if he prescribed CHRONIC medication to a patient from an URGENT (i.e. ACUTE) care clinic?

    All I am saying is that this is way closer to a good reason to be not comfortable. He may be prescribing as a pill mill. His website now has links to find pain specialists elsewhere.

    He is undergoing an investigation from Board of Med Examiners. An expert testified and says that his descriptions in chart notes were one and two word descriptions, only one or two neurological tests to determine more about the pain.

    There is an interview and he seems sincerely concerned about patients, but my point is that this is unlike WAG

    Reply
    • Pharmaciststeve, on December 20, 2014 at 7:58 pm said:

      Curious do you question Rx from GP (General Practitioners) for Diabetics that don’t see a Endocrinologist.. how about therapy for a pt with COPD/Asthma not seeing a Pulmonologists.. how about a GP treating IBS/Crohn’s and not seeing a gastroenterologist ? I think that all those specialists were at one time were licensed as a GP. Most Urgent care centers “doc in a box ” are nothing more than a private practice owned by a hospital system.. and keeps longer hours than a normal practice. Now that WAG’s and CVS Health have announced that their ARNP, NP, PA are going to start treating chronic conditions in their in store “nurse in a box”… what exactly is these mid-level practitioners scope of practice ? Will that be determined by the supervising MD or corporate policy ?

      Reply
  8. RalPh, on December 20, 2014 at 3:34 am said:

    The pharmacist here seemed totally reasonable. It’s clear this is a problem urgent care doctor who is prescribing chronic pain meds and whose prescriptions were involved in something that attracted pharmcist and DEA attention.

    This is the antithesis of what we see from Walgreens: a principled and compassionate yet firm response. He spoke to her last month to prepare her for this eventuality. The smartass doctor decreased the QTY when he knows damn well that the agreement was probably to taper patients off. I am not saying this is even the way to deal with a bad doctor; he would have been better off just not filling for a doctor under investigation for sketchy practices. After all, this is the kind of oversight the DEA expects from pharmacists. (Unlike Walgreen’s phobia of controlled substances.) But apparently there was a discussion between Rph and doctor and Rph and patient.

    Anyway, the pharmacist was consistent and honest. What else do we expect of a professional? Do we expect blind obedience to a doctor just because she/he has a medical degree? If so, you know nothing about professional licenses and corresponding duties.

    Reply
    • Pharmaciststeve, on December 20, 2014 at 8:03 pm said:

      I questioned this RPH’s reasoning in how he could find acceptable therapy of taking a dose every 8 hrs of a medication that would generally last 2-4 hrs. He claimed that he understood that a lower dose would impact her ability to do or keep her job due to increase pain.

      Reply
      • painkills2, on December 20, 2014 at 10:00 pm said:

        Prescription medications kept me working when I didn’t think I could, so to me, reducing medication levels means reducing work levels. And who benefits if that happens? If pain patients are forced into disability?

        The only one I can think of would be the DEA, because they want to reduce the supply and use of some prescription medications, and stuff like this accomplishes their goals.

        Doctors, pharmacists, and everyone involved with the medical industry appear to have the same goals as the DEA.

        Now, who’s goals have we left out? At this time, what would be the point of having goals as a chronic pain patient? That is, goals that involve the medical industry…

        Reply
  9. painkills2, on December 20, 2014 at 12:41 am said:

    I’m curious, how’s that pharmacist going to treat that customer once he finds out he was videotaped? I hope that state doesn’t have some kind of law against videotaping someone without their consent…

    So, the pharmacist is basing the need for decreasing the dosage on a verbal agreement with the DEA and the doctor, not on any regulation, like for total opiate milligram dosage allowed. Really, it’s not the pharmacist who’s dictating to this patient, it’s the DEA.

    The pharmacist says: “I’m totally involved with the DEA.”

    Does the patient understand how this is kind of a warning directed to her? Or is it just me that sees it that way? Man, if some pharmacist was telling me that he’s working with the DEA — specifically on my doctor’s case — well, I would consider that a warning for me, personally. The DEA doesn’t mess around.

    The pharmacist kept repeating, “He’s not a pain specialist,” when referring to the doctor. As if… is the pharmacist saying that he’s a pain specialist himself? It reminded me of politicians saying they don’t believe in climate change — but they’re not scientists.

    And what’s so great about being a pain specialist? The ones who only offer expensive injections that do more harm than good?

    Reply
  10. Nick, on December 20, 2014 at 12:09 am said:

    Wow…unreal…it sounds like her first problem is she is seeing an urgent care physician and not a pain specialist. However I see a pain management specialist and I still get the same similar treatment and this respect from major change pharmacy suchto a mom and pop pharmacy that’s been in business for over 35 to a mom and pop pharmacy that’s been in business for over 35 years. And is long as I take all of my medications there they will fill my prescription medication that is coming from a little getting into pain physician. And he is prescribe being medication for me that makes sense, that is not too strong or 2 week he does not over prescribe if anything I am under prescribed. I will never change pharmacies I will continue to go to the same pharmacy and I will not increase my medication at all whatsoever I’m simply going to leave it is same. I just am tired of having trouble getting my neck a shins sales and I finally have found a pharmacy and pharmacist there willing to fill my navigation is long as I bring it to them each and every mom and never take the prescriptions any worlds if I ever take them to another pharmacy in salem they flat out told me they will reef used to sell for me. So I’m simply going to follow their rules and bring my monthly perscriptions to them. And let them that warm therefore I have no issues and or worries. Because I was fixing to get off all the medication and just be in misery…I feel that isn’t fair at all. I need the meds or else I wouldn’t get them prescribed. I also have a friend who actually killed himself because he was unable to get his medications filled therefore he committed suicide. I hope CVS and Walgreens are happy that they have caused a death that was not even an overdose it was a death because you wouldn’t fill the medication to help with his pain. Now we have another dead person on our hands over this crap. He would be alive today if you people would just fill as medication but CVS and Walgreens and Publix and everybody else decided not to fill them so he just killed himself frankly I don’t blaming rest in peace

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  11. Mark Ibsen, on December 19, 2014 at 11:00 pm said:

    Won’t play on my I phone -:(

    Reply

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